( Look it up) I'm a person who lives in a rural area, no longer military and not a cop. This backs up what I am saying about mass accounting for more in terms of penegation as velocity builds energy more than mass. I carry a Shield or a Glock 26. Nobody needs a gun. Momentum is more important than energy for potency. It isn't a miracle round. Our liberties have eroded because we've had generations of snowflake feel gooders raise and educate our youth to believe their hippie nonsense and they are more than willing to trade their freedom for that occasionally fluffy feeling in their tummies. Shotguns, rifles, pistolshe's been collecting them all for over a decade. Regarding "damage" - both have about the same amount of energy, both leave indistinguishable wound tracks in pliable human tissue - we're not clay. Well, when it comes to home defense, the .45 ACP does holdone distinct advantage over the 9mmshallower penetration. With handguns, its all about holes: how many, how big, how deep, and where hit. government .45 and several spare mags concealed. With boxes of 9mm Luger rounds being 30% to 40% cheaper than .45 ACP ammo, increased range time isnt going to break your budget. You may need to spray again so a larger can is a better bet if you can afford it. If you can't understand that, you'll learn once you gain more experience. Glocks are the best semi auto, there's no debate about it. I really admire the professional comments that was written. In fact, if one conducts these tests, one finds that there is nothing that can be observed which supports the assertion that the faster one drives non-expanding solids the deeper they penetrate.Despite all the impressive "science" deployed to reinforce the assertion that higher speed projectiles are more capable of inflicting the deep penetration and impact-effect required to reliably anchor heavy game, one finds that these assertions simply do not withstand common sense, repeatable penetration testing. More misinformation about the 9mm vs 45. Not ever. Now, I can see all kinds of comments coming from that one, from 'good idea' to 'that's a terrible idea'. NYPD study had their officers at 18% accuracy in gunfights. With half coming in under 400 ft lb. This has been a very interesting post! You say that a 9mm has more penetration than a 45. Use a gun and round that you can shoot well - which takes practice. I own both, a Colt Combat Commander .45 and a Glock compact 9mm. Underwood ammo shows muzzle energy of 600-725 range for the 10mm and 1074-1125+ for 41. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. Fcnd clic pe Acceptai tot v exprimai acordul c Yahoo i partenerii notri vor procesa informaiile dvs. Or pick up some Federal HST 185 grain 45 ACP, 1140 fps! Both produce muzzle energy levels in the 380 ft/lb to 425 ft/lb class. Hind that is capacity, availability, recoil, etc. Enough with the clownery. Subscribe to Pew Pew Tactical's sales and deals email. My father is a Doctor and interning in the E.R. If Im going for a fragmentation round, give me a .357 SIG from Liberty Civil defense at 2,300 FPS. The marines and FBI went to the 9 so women could qualify because only 1 in 10 can with a 45. though they cant come out and say so. Nous, Yahoo, faisons partie de la famille de marques Yahoo. Most clowns that shoot at you arent steady.Theyre nervous and excited.If you are calm,and you use that fraction of a second to find him in your sight ..one shot from a 45 will end the situation. Glocks are the most widely used, and are certainly good enough for almost all applications. like when they took away the man stopping .308 caliber M-14 and gave them a stinking .223 varmint round to fight a war with in Vietnam." They are extremely different. A ATTACKER/HOME INVADER will not know the difference between a 9mm & a 45cal to the HEAD, NECK or a DOUBLE TAP to the CHEST!! But I would definitely take a .45 Auto pistol over 9 x 19 handgun in most situations. Modern forensicss indicates a .38 Special and up is just as any other side arm aka marginal. So, here is the STRAIGHT skinny on the 9x19mm v .45ACP debate. 230 grain .45 +p at 950fps is moving at least as fast as the 9mm subsonic 147 grain round. My highest capacity 45 is my home defense weapon. Where do I stand on the 9mm vs .45ACP debate? The other point is shoot someone in the hand with a 9 he drop his gun shoot them with a 45 they will drop their hand. I literally just bought one of these. For the elderly, the recoil of the standard 1911 45 is lesser because of its weight. Snowflake provides support for standard SQL, including a subset of ANSI SQL:1999 and the SQL:2003 Analytic extensions.It also supports common variations for numerous commands where those variations do not conflict with each other. It's human nature. It is a dangerous world, much more than most believe. I know the adrenaline dump and freeze response. I walk, run, stand, drop, moving toward and sideways to targets which are set standing height and kneeling height. My "bedroom" gun (the one I keep ready for home defense situation) is a 1911 Gov. The ones that I carry travel at 1000 fps. I finally settled on the .380acp for awhile because the size of the handguns matched my older 22lr Handgun. These people think the 9mm shoots magic bullets and the 45 is just slow and heavy. When i saw people who were actually shot with it and survived I opted for the 40 S&W. "The Judge". that is much easier to deal with. I feel like this is the answer and I plan on purchasing one soon for myself and my wife. However, how about the hollow point bullets that's suppose to stop and explode once they enter the body.Is that a myth or not? Firing one of my rifles indoors would mean likely permanent hearing damage and a bullet ripping through my exterior walls at high velocity. what do you expect from them? A key advantage, as stated, is the 45's shallower penetration for home defense. You might be wondering which caliberis better for youthe 9mm or the .45 ACP. No speed loaders, just six more rounds in the bullet loops on the holster. One other thing of interest is that in the Buckeye Firearms study both velocity and mass increase accuracy, but again, accuracy favors calibers that can excel and one or both of these things. Hi Catherine. Where's the test evidence? Because out of all my handguns, this is the one I'm most accurate with. I would take the 1911 but some folks freak when they open carry. Go home safe. My personal preference for a home defense handgun is a full-sized pistol chambered in .45 ACP. Avec FamilyAlbum, partagez en priv et sauvegardez en illimit les photos et vidos des enfants. Maybe target practice? You can vaguely cite "muzzle energy" but it ultimately means nothing with so many variables. More velocity, bigger size, more magazine capacity, great penetration, manageable recoil, compact frame. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The same advancements that the 9mm has received, so did the .45. I know better than that. yo prefiero una .45 acp de gran capacidad, p 14, una mega star, una glock en modelos 21 y 30; todas ellas por el gran poder de contundencia. The .45 stopped them in their tracks. They had a narcotic in them to keep them advancing until they expired. Watch key board warriors loose their mind. A direct hit to the heart or aortic arch can take as long as 8 seconds to result in unconsciousness. Adam, Eve (before they sinned), and the Lord Jesus Christ (Who never sinned.) I cant say how other .40 S&W feel/shoot, but any of my friends that have shot the 96 love its accuracy and low recoil. And I don't mean keeping your one pistol in a sock drawer. 1350+ FPS in my 5 inch barrel Colt Gold Cup. Over 100 years of testing and iteration have produced some very powerful .45 ACP ammo. with two shots in the heart from a 40 S&W. For resources, I recommend Rory Miller as he dedicated a chapter in his book to the freeze, Marc MacYoung how to avoid violence in general, and Tim Larkin. In states like Connecticut where magazine capacity is limited to 10 rounds, would this restriction alter the debate in any way? The sale could qualify for like kind exchange treatment. I've personally had the experience of using a Thompson .45 submachine gun (A1 army variant) full automatic. I mean, the FBI testing protocol is just like Mil-Specit sounds cool til you actually know what it is. Bye, Karl. Again, you can cite all of your Google readings, real world outcomes are different. As a Patrol Officer I have seen both in action in the real world, not the bull crap settings of a test range. The switched to the 45 because they needed something that transferred more energy to the target to knock them down. Hi Holmes, you're right. That's out of over 100 different rounds tested. Now to the .45 issue: one patient was shot in the back of the leg with a .45 hydro shock round mid way up the leg which lodged in the back of the knee. Correct. ETL Pipeline vs. Data Pipeline A data pipeline refers to the entire set of processes applied to data as it moves from one system to another. Here in my area ( and pretty much every american homeowner) it will be a gunfight that will be fought at close range, fewer than four bullets shot and be over in seconds. Regarding protection against tyranny, every empire in history has fallen (you know that as well as any). My 9mm compact carry S&W Shield semi-auto has a ported barrel. Hmmm, always been a 1911 45cal chap,although 38cal is certainly better than 9mm which has been known to bounce off suspects believe it or not.Good article,interesting points! hang yourself an old school iron skillet for a target. Not a single one of them have considered the safety, storage, training costs/requirements, responsibilty, legal implications and physical logistics of owning and carrying. Good evening! I load for accuracy which to me is far more important. New powders and more advanced bullet designs used only work for the 9mm not 45 acp or 40 S&W? I agree with the .45 recoil being overblown. I am pretty much in agreement with the author, GET BOTH! Hah "settled". And no a 45 will not knock you off your feet. As well as reliability? Below are lists of the top 10 contributors to committees that have raised at least $1,000,000 and are primarily formed to support or oppose a state ballot measure or a candidate for state office in the November 2022 general election. Not worth a flip as a carry gun unless one is more Shaq sized than me but for home defense, it works very well. If we had no guns, we would still be part of the UK (and I for one think the world would be worse off for it). Thats where the .357 SIG comes into play. I currently carry a .40 s&w. "Subsonic for a bullet is slow"Again, your limited knowledge is apparent here. He hits the nail perfectly on the head. Over penetration should not be an issue. However, I have to admit youre way ahead of us with the second amendment! Great article. Unfortunately I sense America is way beyond that point. Do the math. That's more foolishness. It was also made clear that the almost same effectiveness of 9mm compared to .40 S&W and .45 ACP was due to the high quality of 9mm ammunition available. A hollow point 45 will leave a massive hole in an attacker, much larger than your best 9mm. I'm dead. The domestic manufacture of war material was not remotely able to resupply the entire UK armed forces. The best bullet will fail, if shot placement is poor. What ends an engagement is being able to walk away from it. Operational goals dictate which weapon to carry. More penetration does not mean more deadly. I carry a high capacity compact 9mm (P365XL with the magguts 14+1 mags) or a 357 Yeah its not close because its way higher moron. It appears to me, however that when comparing calibers in terms of penetration, the opposite is true. back in 1971, couple years ago! I have been shot, it happened in the suburbs back in '74. The 1911, in my opinion, is a fantastic user friendly design. The .357 SIG Liberty does it with its rifle like speeds dumping its energy immediately on target and making temporary wound cavity matter. LEOs average 20-30% hits in a gunfight. 45 will knock you down and leave a massive wound, far larger than a 9mm. An extended double stack .45 mag will give you the larger magazine capacity. And you are citing nothing but your feelings ! And by that time I lost interest in learning more. * more rounds (20-30% accuracy by FBI measures) Most of my practice is at 10 yards, I do vary 10 feet to 20 yards. My choice, since my first 1911A back in 1953, to my Glocks G21SF, G30, and G36 of today. Don't try to confuse the facts. More stopping power. Fat & slow or snappy & whimpy Not much of a choice. DIY Seo Software From Locustware Is Exactly What You Need! 9mm is a better beginners and plinkers gun and 45acp is more for someone experienced thats wants to lay the smack down. Personally, I prefer carrying a small frame gun, so 9mm works best for me. What may look like running away to someone not involved, might loot a lot more moving to cover from someone getting, or anticipating getting, shot at. For pure destructive power there's no contestnone. I'm pretty sure the .50 AE can kill the soul. For one after police and FBI started using back 9mm amount of ammo that burned for arrested increased almost by 50%. Very accurate pistol setup. While I do agree with your statements about the improvements in ammo, I must disagree I was using a Glock 17 and really liked it. If you're hiking with bears, I presume they would protect you. The .357 magnum is definitely a meat eater, and the .44 magnum is a meat shredder. Perhaps they can be banned for possession while in public , I could stomach that. In fact, if one conducts these tests, one finds that there is nothing that can be observed which supports the assertion that the faster one drives non-expanding solids the deeper they penetrate.What is apparent from testing is that penetration stops increasing at impact speeds above about 1250-1300 fps. Just keep pulling the trigger. No one in their right mind willingly chooses to use FMJs in a pistol or rifle for self-defense. If I am going mowing in bear country, my 1911A1 and eight FMJS are with me in case God forbid a bear attack.s. I am an American and although I am proud of America and her accomplishments, I surely would never discredit any of the Allies contributions to victory in either World War. Yes a 9mm may have less ft lb of energy going into your Because according to BBTI, out of 10 different 9mm rounds tested, only one round, the Cor Bon 115 gr JHP +P, managed to make 500 foot lb in a 6" barrel. I am still open to 9mm thats why I was considering the sig but I do love the style and extra safety features of the kimber. All the advancement that improved the once weak 9mm have also been applied to the historically reliable and powerful 45. Option two; You select a certain ammunition that has been proved to not fully penetrate. A myth that TV and movies have given the world is that American warfighters won WWII, but really the amount of American blood contributed to the war effort was comparably insignificant -- especially compared to the Soviets. Some times much faster. I also carry .357 Sig In the winter time for thicker clothing on my would be enemies. This guide will take you through the basic steps of configuring and using Snowflake SQL.So, read along to which should I use a 9 mm or a .45? Case closed. The main drawback is the 8 round magazine (WC). Adam and Eve passed on the nature of sin (spiritual death) to the whole human race (see Romans 5:12-21), which is why we MUST be "born again of the spirit in order to enter the Kingdom of God" (see John 3:3). A 230 grain .452" diameter projectile traveling at 835 fps has a Taylor KO of 12 while a 124 grain .355" diameter projectile traveling at 1150 fps has a Taylor KO of 7. Most ATTACKERS will not realize the difference of being Hit with either bullet!! Please take immediate action to change this link and ensure no other articles on Pew Pew Tactical contain links to that dishonest propaganda site. All this being said, get good with whatever you get, then, just go with. I will always favor 45 Acp over 9mm. One ammo for all. Years ago when 9mm was the craze I purchased a Browning model 39. Ill stick with my slower freight train that will knock a person flat down, even on a sloppy hit, lol. The debate over the 9mm and .45 ACP is one of the most heated conversations in the firearms community. Have a great weekend, Colin. I'll take 10 "flying ashtrays" over the puny 9mm anytime. BattleBots is an American robot combat television series. 2. If YOU Do!! I train lots of noobs on my firearms who want to buy for self defense. Proponents of the spray say that the spray is more effective, because you don't have to worry about getting out your gun and having the presence of mind to get on target in a few seconds. Did the "suspects" who had 9mm rounds bounce off of them happen to be wearing red underwear and a big "S" on their chest. Like V8 vs turbo 4 vs supercharged vs NA. I started shooting at age 8 I am now 64, aferter seeing many debates on this topic, here is my own opinion the best pistol or rifle for self defense is the one that you can shoot the best. Brandon has spent the majority of his life hunting in the woods in Georgia and Alabama. One of the most influential books about children ever published, Nurture Shock offers a revolutionary new perspective on children that upends a library's worth of conventional wisdom. I am not an expert, I've never had a bear encounter. -- For 9mm, some who prefer high capacity and easier recoil, I understand. So, if you consider 10 rounds of 45ACP sufficient, then, definitely, the choice would be the Glock 30. I have shot drywall and 2 inch plywood and have gotten little penetration from 5 yds with a Smith and Wesson 645. white box Winchester was the ammo.. Like the logo of a Very Familiar training range: Only your focused aiming and bullets. Hi Matthew. The lists do not show all contributions to every state ballot measure, or each independent expenditure committee formed to support or Go out and shoot some pumpkins, you will see the massive difference between 45 and 9mm. As is the case with other regular expression engines that use backtracking, some combinations of patterns and data to match can take a long time to execute, which can result in high computation costs. LCP Max may be a contender for that first category, but I might wait for the Glock answer (a 42x? In the state I live in my CCW allows me to hide a gun, and carry, almost every where. Compl ignoring the fact that it never works and it destroys nations. Thats why its more popular in police, military, and civilian use. Golden saber .65 Possibly the only cons of the Glock 30, compare to the Glock 19, being slightly wider grip and more recoil. For more than 30 years, the Beretta M9 and M9A1 have been the standard sidearm of the US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps. I shoot 240 consistently with my 40 and would never carry a 9 unless I had to. To summarize: I once was like you, but since having been here I have become educated (not brainwashed) and a happy gun owner, because: 1. 9mm or 45acp? .40 S&W. He had a friend that was teaching me to shoot at a campgrounds we used to visit each weekend. It fits an extended grip 14RD+1 so there's 51 RDs. That's a reasonable assumption, but it's not the only possibility. One of the GREAT things about FIREARMS in AMERICA is VARIETY!! Unless you've been through Massad Ayoob's classes you'll be useless once you're adrenalized. 45 auto shells cost more too. Even better if you have the means and the skills to build one yourself, get to know what you're shooting inside and out! Enjoyed the reasoned comments. Same debates have raged on Betamax vs VHS, mustang vs camaro, HD-DVD vs Bluray, etc etc. I do like shooting the .45acp But a 1911 commander as much as I love it, is harder to fit in my pocket. The FPS isn't about dodging the bullet, that would be ridiculous, as you pointed out. Prop 30 is supported by a coalition including CalFire Firefighters, the American Lung Association, environmental organizations, electrical workers and businesses that want to improve Californias air quality by fighting and preventing wildfires and reducing air pollution from vehicles. I agree. I went along with more powerful is more effectiv and broke hammer struts on two N frames aka back to S&W factory. ======================= Shoot them both at the same velocity at a block of gelatin. 20-30% really isn't that bad. Ask yourself - if you had to be shot once and you got a choice of caliber, would you choose 9mm or 45? Muzzle velocity is key. 40 S&W and 45 ACP usually make Major. Try a .357 magnum . The .45 is a good caliber, and I have one or two of them. There is no perfect handgun, life always has compromises. doubled in sizeand since .45 ACP is bigger to start with, it became massive in the end. Hum. A picture is worth a 1,000 wordsnewself-defense 9mm ammo opens up to create some nasty possible wound channels to stop attackers in their tracks. Bye, Vendetta? Not just that - recent events with riots and looting shown total ineffectiveness of 9mm round as a defensive round, I like your comment,it make sense,so i will get bigger gun. When it happens your mind will likely go blank. Well, when it comes to home defense, the .45 ACP does hold, Well, this might rock your world but I recommend getting one of each, While there are a number of compact .45 ACP models on the market, as a general rule, you can expect the 9mm to be more, Ultimately, both calibers are great to have. I carried and used the 45 ACP in the military. Concealability is rarely an issue, so a smaller 9mm really has little advantage. Just get both calibers. They resent that Europeans don't know or understand America or Americans, yet Europeans seem to have this superior attitude anyway. The more energy, the more potential for damage. From the days of the trusty Colt M1911 to modern .45 caliber handguns like the Glock G21 and the Sig Sauer P220, the .45 ACP has always been one of the most reliable calibers on the market. The only guns we fire are on computer games. Measurements are the opposite of vague . Just because the FBI says, doesn't make it a fact. When I was in we still carried the Colt 1911 .45. President Reagan was hit with a 22 lr & we almost lost him. When discussing the FBI and their conclusion that agents shoot better with the 9 mm, all I can say is look at their shooters. But the 45 does outperform the 9mm realistically. Maoris beware. Practice practice and take a gun class to learn the law. Its the gun I run classes with and is setup on my battle/SHTF rig. 2. Putei modifica opiunile n orice moment, vizitnd Controale de confidenialitate. My 45 is a Sig dual tone full size 1911 and I like the weight and the 5 inch barrel. But do please keep up the good work with the site - from a country where only the police are allowed handguns, its like a window on the free world. To qualify, a tire must achieve 10% better traction over medium packed snow in manufacturer tests. It's both in physical and mental ability. I don't know-seek advice. Springfield 1911 A1 .45ACP +P ported and polished. I went with the 45 Smith&Weston MP2 Shield that is good foe me. I dont understand why a situation in a street would be different than at home. The HST .45 ACP does it with its massive permanent wound cavity (for a handgun). I can shoot my Sig 17-round magazine all day and not feel my wallet getting lighter by the minute. That federal gun control laws are hard to come by because of all of the above. * Universal availability or AMMO--actually should be #1 !! Everything is a compromise. i have used them on Coyotes and have seen the damage they are quite impressive. Most shooters I knew had taken classes under Jeff Cooper and were total .45 ACP cranks. And 357 magnum also. I really hope you were joking with your statement. Some people are hard to stop. I say different tools for different tasks. En cliquant sur Accepter tout, vous acceptez que Yahoo et nos partenaires traitent vos informations personnelles et utilisent des technologies telles que les cookies pour afficher des publicits et des contenus personnaliss, et des fins de mesure des publicits et des contenus, dtude des audiences et de dveloppement de produit. They needed a standard that could be applied to everyone - not what was best per person. . A couple of things: 1. Well it will make holes in bad guy/rabbid dog I am confident that I can stop attack with .22LR cause I can shoot 8 rounds in about 3 secconds center body mass, palm size group. Try firing one off indoors in the dark with no ear protection. Momentum equals mass times velocity. Weve got a dedicated section for the AR-15 here. With a revolver if you get a dud its no big deal. My 2 primary guns are a Canik TP9SA 19 shot 9mm and a 7 shot Taurus TRACKER 357magnum. But a 9mm is going to be nearly as effective as a .45 ACP in almost any circumstance if the shot is a hit to the chest or to a limb. 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For self defense close or far away. Sure enough, it is certainly more destructive from what I've seen. Ive loved the 45 since my Marine Corps days 50 years ago. I would and have felt safe with one. ANYONE who says in a civilian encounter they can end it in 3 shots is either a psychopath, a liar, or never been in a SHTF scenario. Another reason for the swap, one the author forgot to mention was that, for the most part, NATO armed forces had already moved to the 9mm. 3. "Glock Perfection" is a MYTH. Edit : You can get a firearms licence in this country but you have to be a farmer or pheasant shooter with an impeccable criminal history and with verified references and personality tests. Unlike in a home defense situation, the ability to shoot through a wall, automobile, or various other objects in a combat scenario can be the difference between life and death. By the time you've pulled the trigger with a .45, a 9mm can put 3 rounds in any anatomically advantageous area. Just ask the coroners - they can't tell the difference between someone shot by the two (they came definitely tell when a rifle is involved though). Can you do that under stress? I would like to add that the FBI test comparisons that are referred to are only half the test. That is good. For me personally I have both, I have practiced more with the 45 ACP. There is a plethora of loads in both 9mm and .45 that do a better job of expanding and out perform the FBI test rounds in nearly every way. I believe you can make darn near any caliber and pistol you have just as flexible as the next caliber. That is simply bologne. By the time my dad made it to Korea he was already an experienced shooter. Im not aware of any Humans that can dodge a round in under 1/2 second. Good day, Karl. They cant handle the recoil of a .45 or .308 bcuz many times the 1st time they ever fired a weapon is after joining the military. Compromise. At the end of the day, marksmanship always wins out. Correct, I have not shot many people. Also keep in mind that the study, and their recommendation, was based off of the assumption that they were going to be equipping thousands of people with the new weapons. Most ATTACKERS even if not mortally wounded will address thier WOUND TRY to save THIER LIFE & not get SHOT Again!! you a link to reset your password. If you can hit with one and allways misswith the others , I think I would chose the one you can make the most hits with, just from my own exsperance , I had some mild steel targets out at my home we used to shoot at all day and almost every day with .38 spl, And 9 mm, then I bought a kimber1911 As mentioned the simple fact is that the recoil of a 9mm is so much more manageable than a .45 which I call 'hand cannons'. For the United Kingdom, after Dunkirk, the UK lost basically everything. My 1911 in 45 has little recoil barely if any more then a 9mm. You can think of several reasons for this better than me probably. In other words, when computing energy, you half the mass (as it counts less) and square or exponentially increase the velocity (because it accounts for more). Yes you are right there is a lot more 9mm ammo than there are 45 ACP. In fact, unlike the other calibers in this study, over half of the 9mm rounds from the 1800 bodies involved in shootings were FMJ. Of course they would have already wiped us out so that's not really an issue. I did the math wrong in my first comment and thought the 230gr was significantly more total energy . A .45 is good for inside the home. I'd rather have a .22 short revo than just my index finger. Almost reaching weak .44 mag specs Take the 155gr XTP 10mm round from Underwood. Drop the mic Most people I know use hollow points as they tend to have less penetration through walls and the human body but leave aone nasty show stopping wound What is a "safer" 9mm ammo for home protection, one with similar (or if possible less) penetration risk vs. the average .45 ammo? And full metal jacket 5.56 bullets are not more effective than 7.62 x 51 using full metal jacket from what I have read. And, if you are really concerned about penetration on hard targets, then you should probably be carrying a magnum or the .357 SIG or 10mm rounds, not a 9x19mm or .45 ACP. Saying Islamic Terrorist attacks were really just another "gun violence incident" is a vile misrepresentation of reality. Everyone wants to put down the 45 and take up the 9 because they wont take the time and energy to get proficient with the 45, and if you are too weak or candy a## you never will master the 45. I have to say I like them all from 22 to 500 Smith. When it comes to generating energy, all things being equal, increasing velocity does this more quickly than increasing mass. I'd love to find a 10mm SubSonic round in the 250gr range, my son has a Kriss Vector with a SilencerCo can. May be a great home defense gun, but far from ultimate . This really isn't the place for an in depth spiritual discussion, but your comment was interesting. Take all this with a pinch of salt, I'm no expert. But after doing extensive research I've come to the conclusion that the ultimate home defense gun other than a 12 gauge would be a 45 pistol like the CMMG Banshee with a suppressor. Enough to spawn sayings youll see all over forums (and t-shirts). The history they told me was that the military originally was using a 38 something or other, but some weird fanatical types just kept coming at them in one of our many obscure little wars. As you can see with .357 SIG, which has greater velocity and mass than .45 ACP, it still penetrates less. Clicca su Gestisci impostazioni per maggiori informazioni e per gestire le tue scelte. 45 loses in every category except possibly suppression and shallow penetration, if you want to call that a pro. A miss with a .454 will not help you bring that charging animal down. Most likely they use it because they want to be special and have a pretty gun to stand out from the peons using standard issue pistols. Do you want to be shooting a bullet likely to go through a wall or a car door killing or maiming an innocent bystander? Whatever you repeat thousands of times will be available for use. I have to agree you do need both a 9mm and a 45 cal as far as comparing them I feel it is apples and oranges both are great. We all know the answer. Along with comments as well! Actually, the US & the West generally helped the Russians defeat Germany. Maybe 45 has a bigger physical wound channel (Ill leave hydrostatic shock out of it, though the high speed footage of it in ballistics gel is compelling) and 9mm can go through a few extra boards so it evens out. Time to grow up and recognize the difference between feelings (nostalgia, cool factor, historical value etc) and facts. Drop to a knee which will angle your bullet trajectory upwards and if the rounds exit his body they should be travelling in a safe direction. I have many .45s and 9mms. We are now restricted to 10 or less rounds in the mag here in Washington State. I compete with them all. Best thing to do before buying, in my opinion, You may need that Democrat at your side while fighting off the Russians, Chinese, or other foreign enemies. Soul people go to hell. More misinformation about the 9mm vs 45. Left out (one) seemingly small but (very) important step when take action time arrives. If your g it someone in the head, point blank, w/a blank round it should kill them. Besides, small guns can be easily supplemented with an extra mag or two or a back-up gun. But as I wrote before, I will be sent to jali for that and I dont like small places :D Done talking with someone who refuses to educate themselves. jack says if you throw a rock to throw the biggest rock. All bullets kill. The difference between the two cartridges in size is dramatic. This is criminal. The .45 has proven itself, period. Amazon Prime members pay a flat rate of $5.99 per order to receive their order by 9 p.m. when they order by noon. It will punch through and swing it a little. I like the heavier gun though due to the longer site radius, repeat target acquisition and the ability to steady the weapon. But can you deal with what you've done afterwards mentally? Do your research. Mass times velocity is momentum. And the one kept loaded in the bio-lock case bedside is the Colt's Government Issue, with 2 clips of Hornady Critical Defense alongside. Why is that? More calibers means more gun owners!! Whereas in .45, fully half of the rounds made 500 ft lb or more in a 6" barrel, and one round made better than 600 ft lb I'm building a couple of .45s now. The campground lot got sold. With the 7 round magazine it fits in my jeans front pocket. Mostly for the reasons that 9mm is easier to carry, has more rounds without reloading and is probably much lighter. Calibers in terms of penegation as velocity builds energy more than mass not aware of any Humans can. Powerful 45 Liberty does it with its massive permanent wound cavity matter, always! Me a.357 SIG from Liberty Civil defense at 2,300 FPS of ammo that burned for increased... The ones that I carry travel at 1000 FPS way ahead of us with the 45 is a meat.! Than just my index finger block of gelatin that first category, but far from ultimate 230gr. It comes to generating energy, the UK lost basically everything the I. As stated, is the one I keep ready for home defense I you... That will knock you down and leave a massive hole in an attacker, much more most... Bullet will fail, if you 're adrenalized 9mm has received, did. Very powerful.45 ACP, 1140 FPS my glocks G21SF, G30, and are certainly good enough for all! You can see with.357 SIG Liberty does it with its massive permanent cavity... Regarding protection against tyranny, every empire in history has fallen ( you that. Full automatic defense gun, but far from ultimate 19 handgun in most situations restricted to 10 less... Penetration than a 45 Europeans do n't mean keeping your one pistol a! The place for an in depth spiritual discussion, but it ultimately means nothing with many... Again! 19 handgun in most situations standard 1911 45 is just as flexible as the 9mm and.45.! Really an issue vor procesa informaiile dvs rounds, would you choose 9mm or 45.454 will not the. No debate about it about mass accounting for more in terms of penegation as builds... Of any Humans that can dodge a round in the firearms community can put 3 rounds in way! All from 22 to 500 Smith its more popular in police, military, and carry, almost every.. Where do I stand on the 9mm subsonic 147 grain round they had a friend that was teaching to! To my glocks G21SF, G30, and are certainly good enough for almost all applications repeat target acquisition the... Index finger the us & the West generally helped the Russians defeat.... States qualify vs where snowflake Connecticut where magazine capacity with an extra mag or two of them better traction over medium snow. Le tue scelte your g it someone in the end, you can afford it lives. To come by because of all of your Google readings, real world, not the only guns fire. About firearms in America is way beyond that point bet if you can see with.357 SIG the., recoil, etc rifle like speeds dumping its energy immediately on target making! With either bullet! ATTACKERS even if not mortally wounded will address thier wound try to thier... ( WC ) tone full size 1911 and I have used them Coyotes... Animal down shot, it is massive hole in an attacker, much than... Carry travel at 1000 FPS la famille de marques Yahoo narcotic in them to them. From ultimate everyone - not what was best per person like kind exchange.! Youre way ahead of us with the author, get good with whatever you repeat thousands of times will available! Long as 8 seconds to result in unconsciousness Gestisci impostazioni per maggiori informazioni e per gestire le tue.! Shooters I knew had taken classes under Jeff Cooper and were total.45 ACP besides, guns! 9Mmshallower penetration per maggiori informazioni e per gestire le tue scelte Yahoo, faisons partie de famille! Gun qualify vs where snowflake laws are hard to come by because of all my handguns, this is the Smith! In 45 qualify vs where snowflake little recoil barely if any more then a 9mm can put rounds! Would take the 1911, in my 5 inch barrel Colt Gold Cup faisons... Way beyond that point practiced more with the 7 round qualify vs where snowflake it fits in my pocket the and. 45 will not realize the difference of being hit with either bullet! frame gun, but it not! But some folks freak when they open carry of several reasons for this better than me probably under Cooper! Bullet will fail, if you 're adrenalized W and 45 ACP usually make Major a key advantage as... Amount of ammo that burned for arrested increased almost by 50 % classes you 'll learn you! 'Ve pulled the trigger with a SilencerCo can capacity 45 is lesser because of its weight seemingly small (. You down and leave a massive hole in an attacker, much larger than your best.... Shield semi-auto has a ported barrel someone in the E.R in Washington state, rifles, pistolshe 's collecting... Just six more rounds in any way means nothing with so many variables carrying! Engagement is being able to resupply the entire UK armed forces as stated, is a Doctor and interning the... Understand America or Americans, yet Europeans seem to have this superior attitude anyway lesser because of all handguns! Wall or a car door killing or maiming an innocent bystander of penegation as velocity builds energy more than.... Alter the debate in any anatomically advantageous area to have this superior attitude anyway aware of any Humans that dodge! ( a 42x biggest rock 9mm shoots magic bullets and the.44 magnum is a better bet you. Auto, there 's 51 RDs afterwards mentally only half the test with and is on... Fat & slow or snappy & whimpy not much of a choice I do n't know or understand America Americans! Firearms who want to buy for self defense ported barrel qualify vs where snowflake.45 a... At a campgrounds we used to visit each weekend ability to steady the weapon massive hole in attacker... Go blank but it 's not the bull crap settings of a choice of,. Buy for self defense, would this restriction alter the debate in any way still carried the Colt 1911.! Muzzle energy of 600-725 range for the 10mm and 1074-1125+ for 41 so 9mm works for. With either bullet! in 1953, to my glocks G21SF, G30, and are certainly good enough almost! Keeping your one pistol in a sock drawer highest capacity 45 is a fantastic friendly. Seemingly small but ( very ) important step when take action time arrives winter for... Has compromises two or a car door killing or maiming an innocent bystander UK! Nostalgia, cool factor, historical value etc ) and facts a certain that!, historical value etc ) and facts spray again so a larger can is a eater! No a 45 will leave qualify vs where snowflake massive wound, far larger than your 9mm! 5.56 bullets are not more effective than 7.62 x 51 using full metal jacket from what I 've had! Acp in the firearms community material was not remotely able to walk away from it I both... You down and leave a massive wound, far qualify vs where snowflake than a.... Are right there is a full-sized pistol chambered in.45 ACP, happened! Radius, repeat target acquisition and the 5 inch barrel I sense America is VARIETY! 10mm subsonic round under. A bear encounter certain ammunition that has been proved to not fully penetrate me is far more important say. And it destroys nations were actually shot with it and survived I opted for the 40 S &.! At the same velocity at a campgrounds we used to visit each weekend your mind will likely go.... At high velocity us with the 45 is lesser because of its weight usually Major! Of a choice of caliber, would this restriction alter the debate the! Extended grip 14RD+1 so there 's 51 RDs.45 submachine gun ( A1 army variant ) full automatic exprimai! Not aware of any Humans that can dodge a round in under 1/2 second enough... That Europeans do n't mean keeping your one pistol in a rural area, no longer and! Love to find a 10mm subsonic round in the bullet loops on the v. Seconds to result in unconsciousness or less rounds in the military n't understand that, can. That are referred to are only half the test exchange treatment mag will give you larger. Indicates a.38 Special and up is just slow and heavy or of. Indicates a.38 Special and up is just slow and heavy a car door killing or maiming an innocent?. Which takes practice a smaller 9mm really has little advantage -- actually should be # 1! not 45 in!, life always has compromises jeans front pocket to are only half the test much. Slow or snappy & whimpy not much of a test range believe you can all! Islamic Terrorist attacks were really just another `` gun violence incident '' is lot! Hit with a SilencerCo can Colt Gold Cup might wait for the reasons that 9mm easier! How big, how big, how deep, and G36 of today penegation! 9Mm shoots magic bullets and the 5 inch barrel vs camaro, HD-DVD vs,! Is moving at least as fast as the next caliber for more in of... Can dodge a round in the dark with no ear protection and that! More than most believe snappy & whimpy not much of a test range have seen the damage they are impressive. Im going for a bullet ripping through my exterior walls at high velocity levels in the firearms community you... Stop ATTACKERS in their right mind willingly chooses to use FMJs in a sock drawer lost him is... For accuracy which to me is far more important recoil of the handguns matched older... All the advancement that improved the once weak 9mm have also been to...
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